SNM216: Your mental health is just as important as your physical health with Alexander Graves

0:00 I think the best way is to just observe people a little bit. No, we all are usually sitting in our own head all the time, mind our own business, even if we're with friends. And especially if you look at these days when people actually listen to reply and then not to understand, then you see immediately. When someone is talking, someone else is already formulating his next own story he's trying to put out there. And he doesn't even really listen to what that person is saying because

0:32 there was some famous psychotherapist. He said, most people tell you actually directly how they feel on a daily basis. You just don't listen. Hello guys. We have an amazing episode of the Serve No Master Podcast. Today, we have an amazing guest Alexander Graves is gonna talk about being an Unchained man, which a lot of it has to do with overcoming some of our emotional challenges, realizing what we're capable of and starting to modify our lives in ways that I find very exciting.

0:54 I'm so excited to have you here. Thank you so much, Alexander. Thank you for having me. Very great. Thank you very much. So, as I was reading your book, reading, the beginning of it talked about like phases of darkness and talked a little bit about depression, which I find very interesting. I think that, especially for men in our culture, it's very hard to talk about. Even though, as we know men have higher suicide rates, have men have higher depression.

1:14 There's a lot of issues that a part of it is its something that I'm very familiar with is that as the dad, I got four kids and a wife. They can all have problems. Dad can't get sick. Dad can't be scared cuz dad has to be the rock. Yes. So, I'd love to hear how that starts and how we can start to face these challenges? Oh yeah. Great question. Or great point you bring up there. Yeah, there, there is this quote from

1:37 a very famous man who always says that men have the burden of performance. We always need to perform at all times. And that might sound tough for some men. But it's also not quite accurate. You have to perform in front of, for example, your family and your wife and all of this, but you also have friends brothers with which you can bounce back and forth your own issues and ideals sometimes. And this then in my opinion, usually helps you a whole lot.

2:06 And if you see how women are usually invading all male spaces everywhere in the society, not like their own accord, but they're pushed to do it's tough for men these days just be with their brothers and just talk about business, for example, or the gym or whatever your stick is. And because one thing I don't know if you've noticed this as well, that always annoys me is when I see a group of guys and suddenly some girl comes into that

2:31 group, everyone just tries to impress her. They just changed their behavior completely. And I hate that because I think this is why main spaces are so important that men can just be with themselves with their own masculine energy and just enjoy that. Yeah. I think that's really interesting because there's often this interpretation. Oh, if men wanna be their own private space, they must be doing something bad. Yeah. and I can tell you that when I'm with my boyfriends, we're doing something boring.

3:00 So, my wife, when she sees me, my girlfriend, she goes, yeah, I don't wanna be a part of that. We're talking about work or video games things that doesn't interest her. And the same way when she goes out and spends time with her girlfriends, I never think I'm like, yeah, go do it. I know that sometimes we need to be with different groups of people. As a man, I know your book is a lot about masculine energy. How can someone find because there is

3:21 a lot of, we have a lot of our society, don't have a lot of friends, we get to we cause you can work all online now never make a friend and become quite isolated. And there's a lot of that in our culture. Cuz there's so many people that work these massive hours of tech jobs or they're working online. And so, there's more and more isolation now than ever before. So, how can someone realize? Oh yeah, I do need some guy friends. Even start that process

3:45 if they're in their 20,30? Yes. So, this gets increasingly more difficult at least society tells you the older you get. I think it's not true. So, this is the first like limiting belief I wanna kick out of people's minds. It doesn't matter how old you are. You can still always find guy friends. And the best thing is always to do this with a hobby you have. And for example, be with cars or be it with some sort of business you do, online

4:14 business or whatever, or even the gym. This is usually where you find other people and you just kinda focus on the guys there and talk to them. And if there are any women around, then just try to find the secluded spot with your guys where they are not around. I know this sounds a bit weird, but this is what you want. You want to have just male conversations without them around. But this brings us immediately to the next issue. Most guys, these days, you don't actually

4:39 have any hobbies, like when they, yeah. When they get 30, they, they are married. They have children and mortgage in the house. They give up on life. Like people tell me literally, oh, I'm 30 now my life's all what are you talking about? It's like a third of your life you lived so far. If that, so what the hell. And they virtually give up all their hobbies. And I did this in the past, actually myself. So, I know exactly how the guys feel.

5:06 I made all the mistakes. And the key thing is to just think back to what you liked doing in the past. And if, for example, like in my case, I was always big in, in fast cars. So, if you then need money, for example, to come back to this, you are on the right podcast for that. Because hobbies are always expensive. But this is in my opinion, one of the easiest and best methods to find other guys you can talk with,

5:30 especially because you then have a shared topic you can carry on with. And if that doesn't work due, then just call up your guys. And make a group. I actually have a WhatsApp group on my phone with my friends, only the guys, and we meet up sometimes for whiskey and cigars and no women allowed. And I know it's tough to say this in this whole society, but that's what you need. It's interesting, cuz I remember when I was a kid and

6:00 I saw my dad, he has to workaholic and I said, I'll never be like `that. Of course it was wrong. I work all the times. I love it, but I would always try and give him hobbies. Like I bought him a ship and a bottle. I would give him all these different things and he was always like, he didn't like it. And I think that's, it is like he can't, I think that's the challenge. I remember the first day in college, they're like, here's

6:20 the thousand clubs try 'em on. You're trying to figure out what you like. And then as you get older, you get set in your ways and you don't wanna try new things or figure out what your hobbies are. And so, I think that is very interesting. Cause that was gonna be my next question. Is that how can someone go make a conscious effort? Let's say someone goes, okay, you know what? Step one, I need to get a hobby. How do they do it? What's the process.

6:40 They don't have any idea what they like. Oh yes. So there are many ways to actually find that. And the easiest one is to. Imagine a scenario of the world where there is no money, just money just doesn't exist. You will always be fine with whatever we have to do. And imagine a scenario that nobody is watching you, what you do, what would you then do with your life? If nobody would judge you, nobody would care if you wouldn't create anything

7:09 for anyone, and there would be no money involved, what would you like to do? And for most men, this is also something that a decent part did in their past, like before they got married in all of this, because for many men, this is sadly the issue. When they find the woman, they drop all these things and just thinking back, what was it you liked doing there? And the next issue then usually comes for most guys. They are so set in their ways with their

7:31 marriage and their family and whatever. They are afraid to even have to talk about taking time for themselves because they think they need to be dad and need to be the husband, but they always forget. They also need to be themselves. Sometimes you need to be whatever your name is. Whoever is listening right now. You need to be that person also, not just the husband and the father or that guy, your friends know, you need to be yourself and you need to focus on that sometimes.

8:00 And people think that it's selfish on our cystic, but it's not at all. It's just healthy. And I think it's human to do things you enjoy doing. and as I said, think back about something you did in the past, or you would have liked to start, for example, that also works. And if nobody would be watching, what would you be doing with your life? And this question usually brings up ideas. And even if you don't have them online block, for example, I

8:27 have a post about manly hobbies. I call them manly hobbies quote here because you can't decide what you think is manly. But these are just like a list of, I know, 50 or 60 things, usually guys do just use that to some to get an idea and then you can integrate on that. Okay. Cause definitely, I think about my life, I've been married for quite a while. I've got four kids and the majority of my time is either I'm working, which

8:50 I love talking to people that I work with and doing podcasts like this, which I love or spending time with the family, even most of my hobbies, like surfing or paddle boarding or kayaking, most of the time, I'd rather do it with one of my kids with me. So, one of the things at my phase and this, obviously each phase in life we have it's different is I'm at the phase where like, when the neighbors invite us over, we go somewhere.

9:12 It's me and my wife and we meet this other couple and I meet this other husband and we don't wanna be friends with each other, and we just don't we already have our friends. And so, we go, and it's this, we're her friends, which is fine, but that's something, I thought that was just on sitcoms when I'm at that phase in life. And I'm like, it's okay. But I don't really wanna be there. Like I wouldn't have chosen to go there and he wouldn't

9:31 have chosen to meet me either. We don't wanna meet new friends or two strange dogs that don't wanna be friends. So, I guess it is that thing of figuring out how much time do allot. And for me, I know that I do have to spend sometimes alone because I sometimes need to decompress or talk about things that people don't understand. And that can be a challenge. I think, especially in our side, you mentioned that there's men's spaces and

9:50 women's space and a lot of my a is female. And I know for the same thing that a lot of my ladies, they sometimes just need to be talking to the other ladies. They have that lady time and sometimes we just want to have a place where there no, I guess there's, I'd say there's no risk of flirting happening is like the best way to describe it. I wanna be an environment where everyone there, it's talking about something other than relationship stuff, and there's no possibility.

10:13 Yeah. Like you said, sometimes you're with a group of guys, even all married guys to seen attractive women, the dynamic changes. And I do think that's unfortunate for business stuff, but for personal life. Yeah. You do need a time to let out that energy where you can be your gross self. And like I said earlier, it's when you can be at your worst and no one cares, like when there's a lady there, nobody wants to be the first one to fart. That's definitely it.

10:34 So, I think that very is very interesting. And there is this push in our culture. To put men into women's spaces and women in men's spaces. And it's okay. Like my sister were girl Scouts. I was boy Scouts growing up and I never thought that I was missing out and neither today. Cuz it's different stuff. Like you can join whatever club you like, but I do fight it interesting that it's harder and harder. Like it almost becomes oh, I wanna spend the night with just the

11:00 guys almost has become a stigma. And I think that's attached to, again, as I mentioned earlier, a great deal of men not being able to talk about their problems because can't do at home, can't do your wife, can't do it with your kids cuz they don't get it. Cuz you have to be strong for them. Cuz if they find out daddy's worried, then the kids will freak out. Of course. And then now you're not allowed because it seems like you're trying to keep

11:22 women out when really you just want a place where you can talk about stuff where people understand it. I often see I'm very interested in this on TikTok. Whenever men talk about male depression, there's always a lot of comments. Don't make fun of it. I grew up watching Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I watched Will Smith. He had some, something really horrible happen to him on his wife's TV show. Oh, I've been doing horrible stuff to you for years and years. And it became a meme.

11:45 So, we have this culture where if a man has something bad happened to him. And even if he just flickers he didn't cry or anything. He just looked upset, which he should have. It was a very, in addition to something bad happening that you want wife wants to use it to grow her TV show or an YouTube show, whatever it is. I don't know that show. It's like you become a meme. If you show any weakness, if you shed a tear. Anything can happen to you,

12:06 then everyone acts like you should never show any weakness. And I think this, especially this time where there's a lot of people coming at the military, men and women, they can't talk about these things. I think we've become a society where we connect because there's, I think maybe it's cuz there's so many TV shows about serial killers that we think there that sub depression is the same thing as multiple personality disorders. Oh, I'm a little bit sad. How long until you start killing?

12:31 Like I think and I wonder if that's it. And this something that very interests me, I went through a lot of depression. I've written two books on it when I was younger and I dealt with it in very specific ways. But then sometimes, especially these days, if you've seen a tragedy, I think that's a much higher level challenge. Like one of my friends was in the military and he was a sole survivor from a battle, it's like, how do you talk about that?

12:54 He can't talk to me about it. I don't know what that's like. And I have things that I've been through recently that nobody will ever understand who wasn't there. And so, how can we as a society and as men and women start to create spaces where people can talk about things that's healthy and understand that it's not about exclusion, that it's about sometimes I just need a place to talk about stuff that other people who will understand a little

13:16 bit more that are that kind of thing. Yes, that's a great point to bring up there. And I'm just gonna be a bit corny here and use a Gandhi quote when he said: "Be the change you want to see in the world". That's what he said. And what I mean by this, and especially in this case is just be there for your friends, for example. And of course, if you have a, of a guy who is a so survival of a battle,

13:40 obviously he will have a tough time talking about this because there is like very heavy emotions involved in that, but sometimes it's just enough to be there. And just be with him and just have a drink. Maybe not even talk about that. Just you two, for example, not any, not even other guys. And I think there is a lot of, yeah, you said yourself, there are a lot of social stigmas for men to not even cry, for example because that's weak

14:03 or even have some emotions at all. And I think this is weird because humans are just emotional creatures. We all have emotions and these are very powerful, but for me, we just need to learn how to, I wouldn't even say suppress. Suppressing is absolutely wrong. You need to learn how to pass them that you understand. Okay. Right now in this situation, my family needs me right now. Currently I cannot deal with these emotions, but I will do so in two, three days or whatever.

14:29 And one way I like for example, is especially today, in these days with the online therapists, they are very affordable, like we have on a podcast, talk with some guy over video chat and he's a stranger. So, you can be completely open. Because he knows nothing about your past or whatever, or has no like your friend, no emotions involved in things that happened. So, you can just talk to him and tell him exactly what you feel. I do this for example myself. However, there's another

14:59 stigma about therapy also. In the USA, it's a bit better, I think, but in other countries, this is for example, in my country over here, it's frowned upon. If you have therapy, you have issues with a mental serial killer or whatever. And these are these social stigmas, but you gotta, this is where I come back to the quote. You have to be the force to change these things. If you want to change your or want to better your mental health, then

15:24 you will need to look into this. There will no, nobody will wake up one day and tell you, okay, you've gotta fix that. And it's also part in my book or in the other book, I talk about that regardless of what happened to you, it might not be your fault. But it's 100% your responsibility to fix it because nobody will come up one day and try to fix your life. If you have a podcast, for example, or you find the book, this is

15:48 potentially the closest you will ever come to, that someone else thinks or feels about your issues, but you still need to take the action. So, I think the best way is to look at other, there are some successful man, for example, John Peterson, I'm sure you're aware of this guy. He, for example, cried in public. And he's seen as a very masculine, successful guy. So, there are some examples of great man who are able to show emotion, but still be somewhat successful with it.

16:22 Even though, he gets a lot of hate because he's controversial. I get, but. You will have to develop that thick skin. And you do this by talking to someone about your issues, your therapist, for example, or a guy friend, but you usually have to talk about these tough topics with just like on a bilateral scenario. If the other guys around, there's always this kind of group dynamic that you need to one up each other, that's just like a man's thing. In our society,

16:47 especially at least in America, there seemed to be two ends of the spectrum. There's the people that go to therapy and tell everyone. I've never met someone who's a vegetarian that didn't tell me. And then the other end of the spectrum is if I need therapy, something's wrong. It's an admission of fault is like a confession. And I know that in certain professions, if you have to go to the doctor, you have to go to therapy, it immediately affects your career forever.

17:13 If you're a police officer or military, they punish you. And so, that's why people don't get therapy, cuz it's oh, I'm gonna get pulled off duty or lose my job. And that's a real thing and that's very tricky. No one wants a depressed air traffic controller, which I understand. But then it seems like you wait to get help too long. It seems like my experience, most people, again, there's two spectrums. There's people that I know, people that get marriage counseling and

17:34 they've been dating for a month. And I'm like, what seems very quick. But then the most people wait for that type of therapy. I dunno if I wanna say the word it's too late, but they wait until the problem has gotten really big because there's this part of us that I think as a culture, we don't know how to assess when I need help. And we don't know how to assess the right way to do it because we're so

17:55 afraid of saying, if I say I need help, it means something's broken and it's in a mission of weakness. It's okay to say, look, I got cancer, cuz everyone knows it's not your fault, but if you're depressed, maybe it's your fault. And I think that's the hurdle that's really hard. And that's what I saw in your book. And I really wanted to dive into that. I totally understand the importance of men's spaces and that's really good. But I think that when I see how

18:14 hard it is for men, because what's interesting to me is when we talk about men having higher suicide rates, there's a huge number of people that go well, that's not that important. And I think that it's really tough cuz I think it is now I had a. Okay. I went through this. I had a friend, we were at a party hanging out. I went home, went to sleep. He went home and hung himself and I had no idea was coming.

18:39 I was the last person he talked with the party and that's a real thing. I never tell anyone that story, but I think it's really important to know that my thought was not what a weak guy, my thought is, what did I do wrong? Why couldn't he have told. We weren't that close to friends. He was really good friends with one of my best friends. I just knew him a little bit, but I was like, we were hanging out. If you had just told me

19:01 I would've done anything. And I think that's the thing. Even when someone is ready to do it, it was like 10 minutes later. It wasn't like you went home and thought about it. He walk home and immediately did it. Why in our society and how can we create? We talked about being the change you need. How can we create an environment as individuals where people know that if they're in a bad space, they can tell us? That's very powerful story there.

19:28 But first of all, I would really say that it's not your fault. Because I don't think if someone is so deep into these thoughts and is literally thinking about doing it. And does it 10 minutes later, I don't think you could have actually said something at that point that it would've changed it maybe, but it's already very far down that end. If you are already like doing it 10 minutes later. The help should have come earlier. But you didn't know of course.

19:53 And this is the issue. If you look at people in most cases, you just don't know what's going on in the head. And what they're thinking about and the issues they have. So, I think actually I've been doing this for years now, even though people don't always like it is you just ask them directly how they feel, not how they're doing. Not keeping up the joint, nobody cares. Just how do they feel on a daily basis about their life? And especially with men, this is also

20:21 a difficult topic because if you're in a group of men, most likely will get what kind of a pusy question is that is usually what you then get or some shit like that because people, especially men are raised to try to be so tough and never talk about the issues. As I mentioned, the burden of performance, but. We are all just human. And I think the best way is to just observe people a little bit. No, we all are usually sitting in our

20:50 own head all the time, mind our own business, even if we're with friends. And especially if you look at these days when people actually listen to reply and then not to understand, then you see immediately. When someone is talking, someone else is already formulating his next own story. He's trying to put out there. And he doesn't even really listen to what that person is saying because there was some famous psychotherapist. He said, most people tell you actually directly how they feel on a daily basis.

21:22 You just don't listen. We all rarely listen to that because we are so focused on this story itself, not how the person feels about it or getting our own story out. That we overlooked at. So, the best thing, what I tell people all the time also in coaching is just listen exactly to your wife, for example, or your children even, or the other people, your friends, just look at how they, you can actually see how they feel when they tell you something.

21:53 Is there some sort of sadness or dark tone within that? Is there some sort of cynical even. And then you've gotta dig a little bit and people don't like this, so you gotta get some backlash. It's the same with unsolicited advice, which is what I also do sometimes. But people don't like it all but it's powerful and you gotta do it because maybe it just makes them think. And maybe that has already solved the issues. But there's one more thing, because you mentioned the

22:20 therapy being like frowned upon. This always, this is also a social thing. I don't quite understand because we go regularly to a regular doctor, to check our body and our physics, and all of this. But if it's about mental health, that is for some reason weird if we do that because for me, therapy is really just the same thing. It's just having a check about your mind, how you feel and how you operate. That's all you do, because if you really

22:43 go there with a problem, Then there is already something already happened. I like to see a therapy as an ongoing thing, even if you feel fine, it's just to check back with the doctor to have a regular check about your mind and your mental health. Yeah, pretty much. And yes, this is an issue for some companies you work with, but I don't know exactly how far their possibilities go. If you do this on some sort of online coaching session or whatever.

23:13 There are websites where you can do it with licensed therapists. I guess there have potentially some way to find out that you are on there. I don't know, but this is what I would try instead of going to actual therapist in your city or whatever. Yeah. That's really interesting. Unfortunately, when you do it online, it's when you go through your insurance, if your insurance goes through your company, then your company finds out cuz they get the bill. That's what a lot of the

23:35 challenges that's not happens. I wanna dive into cuz you actually said something I think is really very interesting to me, the idea cuz we get like you're supposed to go to the dentist every six months. You're supposed to see your doctor once a year to get that annual checkup. We don't have the annual checkup mindset for mental health. And I think that's a very interesting idea because it's like that would shift the mindset from I'm going to the therapist because something's wrong to you.

23:59 I'm going to the therapist cuz it's my annual thing. And if you can, then I think that would move a lot of the stigma. So, I think you dot into something very interesting. If you say right now, if I say to you, Hey man, I'm going to therapy. You're meeting go. What's wrong, right? Yes. That's our first thought. But if we shift the mindset to, ah, it's my annual checkup, I have to do it. Cuz they force like for example, if a

24:15 police officer is in a shooting, they have to do a certain amount of therapy before they can go back to work because they know even if it's totally okay, you had to shoot at someone, it's a big deal. You have to deal with it. Same thing for England. If you're a train driver in England and someone jumps in front of your train, you have to get therapy. It's not optinal. So, they're trying to put good structures in place, but it is very challenging. It's interesting.

24:39 Cause I have noticed there's this advent of more and more, cuz they've run ads on all the podcasts I listen to of some options for online therapy, which are very interesting and they are moving towards more affordability and we've certainly in my family done more and more telehealth over the last two years for other stuff where said go to the doctor, we just send a picture and get a diagnosis. I was like, wow, I wish I could have done this my whole life.

24:57 But I wanna dive slide a step back again and talk about cuz you mentioned that you tried to detect if something's wrong. And I know that I've been in situations where someone was sending me signals and I missed them. They even said, oh, I think I've got something going on. And I didn't respond quickly enough. And it got bigger and that was my fault from not noticing it. So, I think we all have these. It's not like about my guilt

25:16 about it, but I'm trying to learn. So, let's say we detect, or someone says something. What should we do in those particular situations? I know for example, I've talked to some really high level therapists that if someone talks about they're gonna commit suicide, you have to immediately go like to level one help you have to get a professional, you have to go a suicide help line. You have to go to the big thing because I've seen situations where someone says

25:42 something like on a social media platform, people are like, no, you're great. Everything's okay. We're all your friends here. And that's not the right answer. They're at a place that they're so low, they need an expert. And I totally get that. Okay. But I think that's really a hard conversation. It's like when your friend is drunk and you say, gimme the keys and I've had to do that. And it's horrible. It's such a horrible situation cuz they make it so uncomfortable.

26:05 But exactly that is what do we do? Someone says to you like, Hey, I'm in a really dark place. What do we do beside? Sometimes people come to me and there's a level of depression that you can talk to your friends about not a big deal. Okay. When I was younger and I had depression, I would hang out with my friends. I'd like, Hey, I'm having depression. I know if I'm alone, it will get worse. I know that's a big part of

26:24 how depression works for me. And so I'd say, Hey, let's go out. I used to have this friend Jens in London and he loved when I would get depression. Cuz I would say Jens, I've got depression. I need you. And I was like, we're going to the arcade. We're going to the movies. We're going to the batting cage and I'm paying for everything. He was like, this is amazing. So, whenever I would get depression, we would have an amazing day. I would pay for everything

26:42 cuz he's helping me. And he loved when I had depression, because he would get to have an amazing day. It worked for both of us. And so, that was one of the best ways I dealt with it is that I would tell someone immediately, and then we would take action, but I'm discovering now later in life that you know, and there, but there's a level where that's not enough where you have something serious where it's a high level depression, it's more clinical

27:03 where you need an actual therapist or someone who knows what they do. They're this is their expertise. How do you know when you're at that level? And more importantly, if you have a friend who do text someone who is at that level, what do you do? What is the right action steps, is it making any difference? Oh yeah. First of all, I wanna say that I'm not a licensed therapist, so I'm not a hundred percent sure I'm gonna give the right answer to this question.

27:26 We can make this clear because yeah, it's just my personal opinion. And I think when someone says this, for example, they're in a very dark place. And even thinking about like suicide, for example, or just like mentioning it in a winged sentence, I'm talking about this topic. I don't think, as you said, they're talking about it from your perspective as a just friend or guy friend, that's really change that. But they also, if you tell them, oh dude, you gotta get to the suicide hotline, whatever.

27:54 And talk about is that usually doesn't do anything either. I think, and this is what I would do. I would ring them up without him knowing and tell them about it and somehow get this connection going that he has to talk to them or someone comes around or whatever. I dunno, because at that point, reasoning with that person isn't really working anymore because he's not operating from his rational mind. It is only feelings feeling depressed and feeling bad about it. And you cannot rationalize with feelings.

28:22 You just can't because they don't make sense. In most cases. And then I think you have to be that guy and you will most likely get a burden for shit for that, that you actually do this behind his back, but you have to best intent in mind. And this is what I would do. I don't know if that's the right cause of action. I'm gonna be honest with you there, but if it's that, that far down the line, this is what I would do.

28:45 So that's interesting to me that happened to a friend of mine. I didn't do it to him. He was in a really dark place and he disappeared and he got it's called sectioned in England. Basically you can put someone in, obviously you shouldn't do, unless they really have a problem for 24 or 72 hours. You can say, look, I think my friend's gonna do something and they'll put them into a mental hospital and I guess you have to talk your way out of it.

29:10 You have to show that you're getting better, that you're dealing with it, or you have to face issues head on. That's a tough thing to do. It's kinda friendship ender for sure. If someone sectioned me, I don't know. But my friend was so, he came out the other side really happy. I think he was ended up a couple of weeks at a facility or whatever. And he was, he'd never talked to me about his depression before, but afterwards that's all he wanted

29:26 to talk about, which is fine. But I think it is really challenging. I think the big issue is that in our society, like we know what to do. If we hear a gunshot or see a fire, we know what number to call. But we don't talk about, cause again most projections of mental health in our society are negative. If you say I have a problem, it means it seems like I feel like we have in our society, the idea that mental health can't be cured.

29:53 I have depression. It's forever. I remember. And it's the same for women as well. There's a whole thing of postpartum depression, which I don't understand. It's a women only thing, cuz having a baby, we don't do it. So, it's again, that's a women only space and I've seen situations where women talks about it and everyone is like, what's wrong with you? Why you're so weak? I could never, because I've never had a kid just like my friend who was in battle. I don't understand those things.

30:14 But it's unfortunate that happens to men and women. When we talk about this issue. So, how can we create a culture where it's okay, number one. Know what to do if someone has a problem, we don't really know what to do. Like you said, it's do I call a suicide headline for my friend? And then hand him the phone. Can't even imagine how uncomfortable that would be. But if that's what it takes, I would've done it. It's like figuring it out.

30:37 I think that we have such a lack of education because we can't talk about it. Cuz every time depression on television, it's a murder TV show. You never see it around. Someone gets better. It's always sad or they make television shows that like the suicide happens and then they glorify, or that's just like trying to create your emotions and it should be really about what can we figure out, and what is missing. Cause I think a lot of it is societal.

31:01 Unfortunately I hate to blame society for stuff, but we live in a culture. We don't talk about this. One of the problem is we don't talk about it. Like this I'm very uncomfortable right now. It was a very uncomfortable conversation for me. I didn't know in which way and what direction this was gonna go. I thought of it before the call. These are really hard things to talk about because there's a very good chance that this episode gets like a real

31:20 negative reaction, a ton of negative replies and all that stuff, because it's don't talk about men's issues. Don't talk about mental health that we're supposed to pretend it doesn't happen. And because I come from a place where a lot of people in the military, a lot of my friends, there's this worry that another person will do it because it's very con men post-military and women post-military as. It's a higher ratio, right? Like they're more likely to do it. And so, I worry about those things.

31:46 So, I think it's a really legitimate thing to talk about. It's just unfortunate that there's this heavy stigma that says you can't talk about men's issues. You can't talk about women's issues. You can't talk about mental health for anyone, but I love your idea of switching it to the idea of, it's just part of it. Like you're expected to get a checkup. Yes. Expected to get an audit from a therapist. I do struggle. One of the things I struggle with, especially with marriage therapists is

32:10 they never wanna talk about their results. Cause I'm always like what percentage of people who come to you stay together? I always wanna know that because my parents went to the best marriage counselor in town, and then they went to the best divorce lawyers in town. I always wonder that, cuz I have written this on my books. I think people sometimes go to therapy for issues. I'm not so sure about, or they jump the gun on it or they think marriage counseling can solve every problem.

32:40 And I think, especially in group people therapy, and this is something I love your thought on. A lot of what you do is just say all the other things the other person did that annoys you. And so, you're bringing them back to life. So, one of the things is that I will think about is that it becomes dwelling or lingering. Sometimes people go into a session. They go, I didn't even realize I was mad at you about that. And it's maybe weren't until

33:04 you went into that session. So, that type of therapy I worry about in relationships specifically where it's focused on let's list our grievances. And in the same way, I went to therapy as a child when I was younger. I was maybe six or seven and it can end up becoming performative, at least for me, which is where you go, oh, this person wants to hear stuff. So I gotta create it. I think that's another problem. Maybe that one is just me, but

33:29 that's another thing where you're like, oh, this person really wants to hear the good stuff. So, I need to come up with new, good stuff every week. I certainly am totally guilty of doing that. I was quite young, you're just trying to do what you think that adults want and you're trying to figure it out. But I do think that we have this really complicated issue that is very hard to talk about. And I think. There can be move for societal change. And you're exactly right.

33:56 That it does start with doing things that are hard, like this conversation, like putting out this episode, like really being willing to talk about things and creating that environment. And I find it, very interesting because there is this two separation there's people that like don't care. And those people that are really proactive, that doesn't seem to be much middle, unfortunately, people who are like a little bit interested and wanna make the world a better place, understanding that it's a big deal.

34:20 I remember at the start of the lockdown, one of my friends was like, oh, I've had eight of my friends die. And I was like, wow, that's a lot of COVID death. She was like, no, there were all suicides. I was like, that is a lot. And I know that there was a big spike because we're all trapped at home. We can't get access to our health. We can't get access to our friends and some more depressing to be trapped. Totally understand that totally reasonable.

34:38 And even with that happening, Still no one talks about the suicides. No one talks about those things where people need that help. So, I know we've been talking for quite a while and I don't wanna burn up all your time. I do appreciate this. And I wanna go to one at last issue after this, but what's your advice like, what do you think people who are watching this episode, what can they do right now to make that little bit of societal change?

35:04 How can they be a little bit of the change they wanna see? Oh, yeah. So, I think I don't wanna get too esoteric, but I do think that the reality is an extension of your mind, in my opinion, that means how your own mind is set up and how your mental health is developed, shapes how your reality unfolds for you, even if it's just by the habits you do because of it. So, I think you always need to start with yourself.

35:28 That means I would recommend for anyone who can do it, who doesn't get fired immediately, or at least look into it, get yourself a mental health therapy and just do it, as you said like a dentist appointment, you do every now and then, there are websites, you can do it like on a monthly basis. I, for example, do it every week. I have every week a 45 minute call with my therapist. And sometimes there isn't even something new to talk about.

35:50 You're just chit chatting, but it' still helps me a lot because I know I can talk about everything with this guy. There is no stigmas or anything involved in that. But you can start with a month, like in the beginning, that should be enough and just treat it as its just a checkup, a mental checkup. Don't tell yourself you have a problem just do it to stay sane, to put it that way. And I think this is the best cause action we can all do.

36:18 And this it's, as I said, it's not even expensive. I think it's like the one I have for example is 50 bucks a week. I think that's affordable for most people. Obviously insurances don't pay that and you don't even want them to know about it. So, you have to pay this from your own money, but yeah, Jonathan has all the info on how to make more money so, that should be fine. Yeah. It reminds me of something my best friend said in college, one time he

36:45 said money can't buy happiness, but it can buy you air conditioning, pay for your kids to go to a good school. It can buy you front yard. Guess he really wanted front yard and it can buy you like you can afford the therapy, you need your access to these things. So, I think that it does tie together because I do think that there's also a huge amount of depression in our industry, in the solopreneur industry, because you are not around other people.

37:08 When you shift from working in office to being by yourself all the time, there are things that you're used to and you can go a week without talking to another person. And you don't realize how important that kind of communication is. I can be honest about this. I have this ability to not leave my house for weeks without realizing it. Cause I'm so diving into a project. Fortunately my wife and kids are like, let's go out and we go to the beach or

37:29 the pool at least a couple times a week. That's why we live on the small island, but it's very easy to fall into that. And you don't realize that you have to maintain a balance. So, you have to take care of your physical health, your mental health, and then your wealth, like these three parts of your life. And the wealth gives you that access to the ability to afford these things without needing to rely on your insurance, the ability to have,

37:50 okay, I'm not gonna lose my job. If people find out about this stuff, cuz I have this level of control of these other revenue streams. And that's why I'm such a believer in developing your own revenue streams so, that you have access to what you need. So, if you need to do other things, whether it's pay for emerging to medical care, which I've had to do or whether it's get access to this type of help without having to go through your insurance provider, I think

38:10 those things are really valuable. And so, that's why I think it's so good for people to learn how to build up these secondary revenue streams. So, they have this buffer cuz bad things are gonna happen. The last thing I wanna talk about is you have a new book coming out that you've been working on. I'd like to hear a little bit about that and where people can find out more about you and get to know more about what you're teaching and working on? Oh, yeah.

38:30 So, the next it's actually a working title. I haven't decided on the end title yet for right now, it's called "Alpha Jesus", because I find this to be quite funny. It is the extension of my existing books, where I talked about masculinity in which you should do as a man to feel happy about your life and your needs and all of this. And also shadow work is also a big part, like your deepest desires and like getting in tune with them.

38:56 Because I think the inevitable outcome of any sort of self-improvement you have, especially around your masculinity is at least in part, a little bit of spirituality. And it don't mean religion. It mean spirituality. That just means you have a higher calling you want to achieve whatever this might be. And it doesn't have to change like society as a whole, but it's just something that drives you every day, a passion, a purpose you want to achieve. This book touches a lot on how your

39:23 subconscious mind operates, because that's a big thing for me and it's not just habits, but it's also how it creates your reality and how you as a man have this driving force giving from the universe or God, whatever label you wanna use, doesn't really matter to me, but it's just the basic idea of and this is what I call The Alpha Jesus of Masculinity, and also the spirituality part, which will then help you to gain greater insight in your

39:51 life as a whole and the people within it. And also a big thing I tackle in there is to just talk, to just have more guy friends and be around them and talk with them about issues, which is also what I wanted to add. If you don't, or if can't afford that therapist, at least meet with one of your guy friends, not the whole group, just one for a drink. Just talk about things and make it, if you don't wanna be open about directly, just

40:18 ask, how do you think about this and that? What is your opinion on this? And then just cover it a little bit if you cannot be that open, because I know there are many fields involved, so there's also this and how men need these groups to be together and change his muscular energies and all of this. So, that will be the main focus of that book. You can find it on selfconquering.com. That is my website was also my blog and all the other stuff I

40:44 don't have released it yet, but I would say it's already at 70% ish. Yeah. Okay. That's great. So everyone, you can find out more about Alexander. We talked about masculine issues, dealing with depression, how to talk about tough issues at selfconquering.com. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate you taking the time. This's been an amazing episode. I know it's a deep one. I hope people find a lot of value from this. Yeah. Thank you for having me.

41:09 I would love to talk about this topic deeper and more in the future, because I think it's very important, especially for men. And by the way, I don't wanna neglect the girls. They have all their own issues in this society. They're usually just different, but women also don't have it easy. I'm not gonna say that at all, but my main focus is the guys. Yeah, definitely topic we need to talk more about. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks for listening to today's episode making that first dollar online.

41:34 Doesn't have to be daunting. I've got you covered. Get my free guy on how to make your first thousand dollars online right now at servenomaster.com/1K.