You can use AI to research everyone in the room and still leave with nothing, because the same tool that prepares you can quietly replace the social skill the conversation depends on. Larry Kaufman's answer on The Artificial Intelligence Podcast is that AI belongs in the preparation and the follow-up, not in the relationship itself. The host's point is that people who lean on it too much can lose the muscle for eye contact and small talk, the way someone orders no-contact delivery because they no longer want to look the driver in the eye. Kaufman's alternative is not to reject AI. It is to use it for research, memory and follow-up while you do the human part: ask questions, listen, and lead with giving rather than a pitch.
What is the biggest mistake people make at networking events?
They sell themselves and their company before they have met the other person. Kaufman's phrase for this is "showing up and throwing up," and the result is a one-sided conversation the other person will not remember. Networking, in his framing, is business dating. You are trying to learn about someone, not unload a card and a pitch. He aims for a 30/70 ratio: the other person talks about 70 percent of the time. The old habit of collecting and distributing as many business cards as possible is the opposite of that. He now waits until someone asks for a card, or until after a real conversation, because most cards go to people who will never do business with you.
How do you use AI to prepare for a networking meeting?
Use it to surface what someone actually cares about, then verify what it gives you. Kaufman's use of AI includes pulling from a person's LinkedIn profile, public media and social media before internal meetings and networking conversations. He looks for career moves, side projects, shared connections, and the causes someone lists under volunteering. He asks AI for good questions to ask about that background. He also double-checks the result. When you search his name, AI can return a chess grandmaster with the same name. He checks the photo against the profile before trusting the facts. The same logic applies to a charity on someone's profile. Kaufman's own profile lists March of Dimes. Asking about that, rather than the weather or the job title, can open a deeper conversation, because the causes people choose are rarely random.
What to do before you use AI to research a new contact
Pull the public details first. Use AI to extract career history, side projects, shared connections and volunteer work from LinkedIn and other public sources, and to suggest questions about them.
Verify the identity. Check the photo and the facts against the person you are actually meeting. Name collisions are common, and an AI search can hand you the wrong person's biography.
Find the cause, not just the job. Look for the charity or community work on the profile. Kaufman's test is whether someone asks about March of Dimes. That question works because it points to something personal.
Prepare to listen, not to pitch. Set the intention to let the other person talk most of the time. The 30/70 ratio is the goal, and AI preparation exists to help you ask better questions, not to give you more to say.
Write down what you learn. Kids' names, a story they told, a cause they support. Kaufman's point is that the details are what people remember, and AI can help you keep them straight, but you still have to bring them up the next time.
What do you do if you're networking because you lost your job?
Network before you need to, and if you are already in transition, say so early and then turn the conversation outward. Kaufman's line is "Don't network when you lose your job, network when you have your job." Kaufman's advice for someone in transition is to open with the fact that you are looking, then say you want to learn about the other person too. That prevents the call from becoming a monologue about your resume. His five words are "how can I help you?" even when you feel you have nothing to offer. The offer itself changes the tone. And tell people you are looking. If no one knows, no one can refer you.
Why does networking matter more in the AI era?
Because AI has flooded the hiring market with applications, referrals carry more weight. Kaufman's observation is that a job posting can now draw hundreds or a thousand AI-written applications, and he has seen candidates using ChatGPT during interviews. When he hires, he asks employees first, because a referral beats a process where a large share of applicants are unqualified. Many companies have internal bounty programs that pay employees for a successful referral. That gives you a reason to reach out to weak ties on LinkedIn: ask if their company is hiring, and offer to say they sent you so they get the bounty. AI can help you research the company's values and culture before that conversation. The relationship is still the asset. AI only helps you show up prepared to give something.
Original show notes
Is AI making us better networkers — or quietly killing the human skills that make networking work? Jonathan Green sits down with networking expert and author Larry Kaufman on using AI to deepen real relationships instead of replacing them: researching people before you meet them, remembering what they care about, and leading with generosity instead of a pitch.
Key Takeaways: • AI is great for the prep — research, remembering details, follow-up — but over-relying on it erodes the social skills networking depends on • See people as more than a resource; lead by giving, not taking • Use AI to surface what someone actually cares about (their causes, their work) so you connect as a human • Networking matters more than ever in the AI era • Don't "show up and throw up" your pitch — authenticity wins every time
Notable Quotes: "I like to learn about people so I can be more giving." — Larry Kaufman "Just offering to help — putting it out there that you have a network and you're happy to help — is a good thing to do." — Larry Kaufman
Connect with Larry Kaufman: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larrykaufmanlinkedinspeaker Book — The NCG Factor: https://geni.us/UctTsX Website: https://www.jeffersonwells.com/
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Auto-generated transcript, 8,666 words. Timestamps link to the moment in the episode.
artificial intelligence is changing the face of networking and we're going to talk all about it with today's amazing special guest, Larry Kaufman. Now Larry, I'm really excited to have you here because like me, you're passionate about networking and I've seen how it can help or hurt when you use AI as part of your networking. I've seen people who use it too much and it kind of decreases their social skills and they kind of become those people who
order food with no contact delivery. Like I don't want the delivery man look at me in the eyes and talking to me because I won't know what to say. And that can be very detrimental but could also help you do the right research, figure out what someone is passionate about, kind of help you prepare for those meetings, right? Interactions. And there's so many good things it can be for, but I would love to hear kind of your perspective before we even get into AI.
What are like the critical elements of networking of the things you want to get right? If you want to grow your business, grow your social life, grow your career. Let's start there and then we'll get into the AI. Well, thank you, Jonathan. Great to be on your podcast. Great to meet you and great to share insights about networking and AI because I wrote a book about networking, Connecting and Giving, 2019, but AI wasn't as prevalent as it was today. And I would say what's critical about
networking, I kind of redefined it when I wrote the book. I always looked at networking was, you know, if you've been to events, Jonathan and You know, in the day I used to just bring a bunch of business cards and the whole idea was to unload all those business cards to as many people as possible in exchange for theirs. And then that was awesome. Fantastic. Loaded up in my CRM and life was great. And that is terrible because I think networking today is about getting
to know people, asking questions about people, right? Networking is, is kind of like business dating. And so I'm getting to know people and learning about people a little personal, a little, you know, where they're from, maybe tell me about family, tell me about the job, what they're doing, what they're looking to achieve. And I like to learn about people so I could be more giving. may make a connection, Jonathan, or at this event, you got to meet Sue who's here as well.
I think you guys are going to really hit it off. So, so I think the important thing about networking today is not to be transactional. but to be more authentic and to think differently about cultivating not gathering business cards. One of my early mentors taught me that favors are a muscle, not a finite resource. And I realized that, because we kind of think, I have this connection, I can only use it once. I can only ask this person for one favor,
I can only do one thing. And we then start collecting and trying to remember all of these things and it becomes very transactional, like you said. And when I started thinking, you know what? I'll just do nice things. you kind of, people reveal themselves. If you do a couple of nice things for someone and then they start treating you worse, it's like, I would rather find out that you're horrible early on in the relationship rather than wait six years.
So it's like, thanks for letting me know now that I don't want to be friends with you. So there's this fear that you'll get taken advantage of, but really once you stop worrying about transactions, it's a lot easier to have conversations because you don't have those like hidden motive. And most of the time, when we try to figure out is this person a good contact? Are they gonna help me grow my business? We're guessing too soon. it's the most people,
I can tell you the biggest clients I've ever had, I didn't think it was a sales call. I didn't think it was that. I thought it was they were just calling me to ask a question or they were just friend of a friend. And it's always those where you have no material motive that you can create that powerful connection. And then exactly that moment where you go, my gosh, I know someone you should meet rather than thinking. I know someone you should meet,
but first you give me a favor, then I'll do you a favor. And that creates, yeah, this uncomfortable conversation of, I get more than I give before the conversation or relationship ends? it's so transactional and transactional often then becomes competitive and it never ends in happiness. And I think that's a really important lesson that it really changed my life. And I think it's really critical that we... Start to see people as more than a resource because I remember going to conferences where everyone would give
me their business card I like I haven't met you yet What what's happening here and I? Started thinking I'm only gonna give some of my business card if they ask for it or after I've talked to them because you give it to so many people that Never do business you they're a different industry. They're not the right fit So adding a little bit of the human and I think that really makes sense What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see people make when they?
decide when they go to their first conference or their first networking event and they're trying to get out into the world and they don't know what to do. The business card one, of course, I've seen so many times. But what are some of the other things that people, that start to make people kind of act unnatural? I think they're selling themselves in the company, the products or services that they represent. So they're dominating the conversation. Jonathan, great to meet you. So I work for Jefferson Wells.
Let me tell you what we do. And they can't wait to get that out. And so I, I've done a dating podcast because I feel dating and business, you know, they, they really overlap. And so I think if you, if you talk too much, right, during that date, or during that first interaction at a networking event, a conference, one-to-one meeting, you you're gonna go away from that business meeting, that networking meeting alone, right? Same thing on a date. If you're all about yourself and not about
the other person. So I think one of the biggest mistakes is we're so, maybe we're nervous, but we're all about me, me, me, me. And I focus on you. I focus on the other person. I don't have another motive. I'm not thinking about sure hope I can get their business. I just want to learn about that other person. And it's funny when you ask about the other person who they are personally and professionally, it does come back to you. And you know what?
If it doesn't, that's fine. May at the end, I mean, you and I both know probably the best meeting is at the end where they go, Larry, I don't even know anything about you. You asked all these great questions about me, but I don't know anything about you. Why don't we have a second meeting? Or if you're at a conference, you know, if you're not local, why don't we have a virtual? Or if you are local, let's get together.
I'd be happy to share more about myself, but that wasn't my intention. It's so funny, right when you brought up dating, that's what I was thinking about because I learned dating before I learned business and it's so much harder to have a conversation with a beautiful woman than to have a business conversation. Once I learned the structure of a conversation and realized that if you're and you show interest in someone, it really means a lot. One of the things that kind of blows my mind
and this is always surprising is like the average man gets like one compliment every six months. It's so rare for us, like very rarely, unless someone wants something from you, does someone say, can I buy you a drink? It's like when it happens to me, and it is rare, and it's been years, because I've married for a long time, but it's like, my gosh. Like, and it's so easy to get time with someone just by being nice and not having an ulterior motive.
And when I first started out, I said, what if I, I'll try this at these conferences. I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm not good at business, but I'm good at dating and I'll try the same things. Like, my gosh, it's so much easier. You don't, you just give value, which means being nice to people and say, let me buy you a drink. then finding out what they care about. Some people really want like the best car. Some people just want to talk about their
family. Some people really care, care about their next promotion. And if you just let people talk and I try to have the 30 70 ratio, like I want them to talk 70 % of the time. And I talk about 30 so that they say the majority because There is that really funny dating story where you go on a date, you come home, it was the best date ever, and the girl goes, he talked the whole time, I never talked. And the more we talked,
the more we think it was a great experience. And I think this is a really, really powerful lesson that if you show interest in people, I can tell you that when people remember my kids' names or what my kids care about or a small story I've told them, It's very, very significant to me. Like I have five kids. It's pretty much my life is my kids. That's why I have so many. I don't do cool stuff anymore, but I do dad stuff and like the things
that really matter to me, like their experiences and like one of things we're going through right now is that my daughter, they kind of want her to start training for the Olympic Taekwondo team here. And my wife was like really into it. And I was like, well, it's great when she wins because we've only ever seen her win. But like that's a knockout division. I was like, you, I don't think, I know I don't want to see my daughter get knocked out.
She's 12. I'm not ready for that. But like anyone who can talk to me about that, you get all time of day, right? Like if you remember that story because it's really important to me and it's, that's one of the things that's like the great equalizers when you talk to someone, their family, their kids, cause that's a universal experience. Everyone has been in a relationship or had kids or nieces and nephews or been a kid and you start to form these connections and it's like,
My favorite thing about entrepreneurship or being in leadership is that you get to choose who you work with. When I was employed, when you're an employee, there's always someone you hate at the office and you're stuck. Like you just have to accept it. There's people you like and people you don't. But when you're an entrepreneur, you get to make those decisions. And I started thinking, what kind of people do I want to be around? What kind of people do I want to talk to?
What kind of person do I want to be? And I think these are really powerful lessons that once you figure out I think you could really accelerate with AI. But first you have to figure out what is the right type of conversation? How can I approach people? Because sometimes, and this has happened to me a few times, where someone's so nervous, they act really weird. I had someone bow to me one time. I was like, I'm not that famous. Like, you've massively overestimated my famousness.
was like, I'm really famous to a very small number of people. Like to 10 or 20,000 people, I'm very famous. To everyone else in the world, including my wife, I'm just a guy. But I was like, whoa. I'll never forget it because he was like, I'm so sorry to disturb you and he bowed and walked away I was like, I'm he caught me when I was so bored I had an hour with nothing to do and I was literally waiting it was the
best time for someone to ever approach me and he Thought I was upset. I was like no don't leave I know to talk to you. Yeah, it's your moment and that's it's always that How do I approach a celebrity or someone to look up to where you start to act? And it's not the celebrity who acts weird, it's the person. Once you realize it's you, if you just treat people like people, then you could start to really open a lot of doors, because everyone has universal
experiences, everyone's a person, everyone goes through that. And I think that's when AI can really help you prepare, like, what does this person care about? What do they talk about? Like, one of the research things I'll do is look up, a person ever walked out of a podcast, and what did the host say? Because you know, sometimes celebrity walks out of a TV show like, I've seen one like some actors are like, I don't want to talk about movies.
I just want to talk about my band. Well, I want to know if they have a rule like that before they come in. So I don't accidentally step on the same landmine. Little things like that can really make a really big difference. So that's where research accelerates. But first you have to understand it. That's why I wanted to start here. And maybe we can now get into like, what are some of the ways you've used AI to accelerate your networking?
For me, it really helps me remember people. That's one of my big challenges because I meet so many people. and I have so many guests on the show. The show's been going for almost 10 years now. I don't want to forget people, but it just happens. I'm not very good at remembering faces after so long. And that's a great question. So I will go back briefly about your daughter. I would learn that, right? We meet somewhere or we're talking today
and that comes out in the conversation. And most people gloss over it. And you wouldn't have asked me, Hey Larry, if you know anyone that has dealt with the Olympics in Taekwondo, but I would say we should talk offline because I've dealt in that world a little bit. Let me see if I could help. get you connected to someone that could have that conversation or give you a little intel. But we'll put that aside. So that's separate from this podcast, but those are important things.
And I don't think that would have came up with AI research. Cause your family, maybe that wouldn't be out there for me to know about you and your daughter. However, when I look at AI today, I also tie in LinkedIn, know, so LinkedIn I talk about because LinkedIn to those conferences or one-on-one meetings. So much that we can learn about people through the shared connections or something interesting you put on your LinkedIn profile. The great thing is AI extracts from your LinkedIn profile.
It extracts from whatever may be on the internet somewhere about you and other media, social media. And so I like using AI for preparation for internal meetings at my company, for networking meetings. There's so much I can get from AI. Now I gotta double check because if you search for me and you pull something up on AI and Larry Kaufman, there's a Grandmaster Chess Champion, Larry Kaufman. I am not that person. We have the same name. I am not that good at chess.
But if you said, Larry, so wow, Grandmaster Chess Champion, you're wrong. So do a little diligence and see if the picture matches with what you see. you know, from that AI search, but I will tell you, it does help in preparation for that meeting and to, to pull out those facts and where I could ask about you from what I pulled from AI and AI can actually give you, Hey, what are some great questions I could ask Jonathan about his background in X,
Y, and Z. And can you share some interesting facts about Jonathan in the past 10 years on his podcast? And no, I have never walked off a podcast. We're safe. Yeah, it's, I deal with the same thing. Jonathan Green is such a common name that I'm like the eighth most famous Jonathan Green. There's like two authors, A Fault in Our Stars, that's written by Jonathan Green. There's a famous painter. And I sometimes, I have sometimes like messaged the wrong person because they have the same name.
I try to be good about that, but it does happen and it's sometimes it's. really wild when someone has a wrong fact about you. Like, yeah, I wish I was the science fiction author, Jonathan Green. love sci-fi. That would be amazing, but I haven't written all those books. But that's something that AI is getting better and better about. Like when I was first doing research, said, chat, GBT, right? The style of Jonathan Green. And it started sounding like me. was like, which one did you choose?
And I was like, business author of Serve the Master, Jonathan Green. And I was like, I'm in there. I made the cut. I thought, you know, I didn't realize I was, cause some of my friends who've written books are in chat, GBT and some aren't. And of course now there's all these big lawsuits about that, but I was like, I made the cut. I'm someone who knows who I am, which is kind of interesting. it's really one of the things that like I still
use is like when I do research, I still do the face match. Like I think your LinkedIn profile picture is so important. And sometimes people don't change it for like 20 years. And I'm like really looking, I'm like, am I talking to the right person? Like sometimes like after an episode, I'll look up someone's LinkedIn profile to kind of make sure I. Send the link to the right place and i'm like, ~ and i'm looking at the video recording and making sure it's the same person
so that is really important and people do Reveal what's important to them and this is like in the moment Things are very very important like when you're trying to get your kids into a preschool Anyone who knows about preschools is like someone you'll talk to because like important to you in that moment Those are the things that I can't pick up because it's so short in time But exactly that, like, I had this friend who I met at a conference,
this is almost 15 years, maybe more than 15 years ago, and I was talking to him and he was really famous. And I was like, when you're not working, what do do? And he's like, ~ I use all my money from my business to fund amateur archaeology digs. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, I fund my own digs. He puts millions of dollars into going to these places around the world. He always has a fossil in his pocket. And I was like,
And for some reason, nobody knows that. I still run into him. ask, and he always has a new, and they're always something that's like amazing. Is it's like, he's that passionate about it. And it wasn't, I didn't ask a crazy question. said, besides work, what do you like doing? And he just talked about it for 20 minutes. And if you let people, whatever people talk about and their voice slows down a little bit and they talk a longer answer,
they care about it. And it's really like, it's not a big riddle, but Most like most of what people care about is not work. Like sometimes like work. I care very much about my work, but it's my work. But it's like I care more about my family. I just do. And but if someone talks about work more than you, no, that's their priority. And that's okay. So you can figure out what they're passionate about and what they care about.
And then that's what you have to remember. Like it's amazing to me how many people ask someone's kids names and then not remember it. Like that's the first thing I'm writing down. Like I don't want to forget that. It's so important. And people have different approaches. Like one of the people that I've done, I did a really, really big project with was Mormon. And he has this story. He's like, when I was 22, I was really worried we couldn't have kids.
I was like, at 22? Like they were worried, like that's a very unique worry. I didn't have that at 22. And so I introduced him to someone. I was like, listen, before you meet my friend, he doesn't drink. He's very, very religious. He's a family guy. Don't talk about women. Don't talk about drinking. And he goes, Hey, we're gonna have a party tonight. Tons of tequila and models. I was like, what are you doing? I just told you that's not appropriate for this person.
And it was like so uncomfortable because like my friend, both of them knew what I told him and I was like, all right, well, this is not gonna ever happen again. And it's like different people need to meet different facets of your personality. And when you can understand what someone cares about, then it becomes very easy. Then the business just happens. Because we want to work with people we like. I think if you can extract from AI about their philanthropic interests,
those sometimes are near and dear to people. And so you may see, you know, if you, if you don't use AI and you're looking at someone's LinkedIn profile and you see under volunteering, some of the passions they have for different charities, that's near and dear to someone's heart. And so you want to learn about that. And I do, I ask about that. It's important. I, I, in my profile, I put March of Dimes. It's, it's in there. You have to find it. And if someone were
to ask me about March of Dimes, that'd be something I'd be passionate about because I supported March of Dimes. Wasn't on a board, but financially supported it because my daughter was a March of Dimes research helped to save her when she was born at 26 weeks, a two pound baby. Now I don't put that in the profile. If you just said, Larry, I noticed you support March of Dimes. Whenever I see that in someone's profile or it comes up on AI,
hey, I'm curious about your role with March of Dimes. Was there a preemie in your life? And that just opens up a deeper conversation. it's so interesting because I think that's probably one of smartest things I've ever heard is that most people assume everyone else's charity selection is random, but it's usually related to something you've been through. Like the things that you care about are because of the experiences you've had. I could talk to you about that for ages because my sister had
a preemie horrible situation and we had a really, really. tough incident when my second son was born where they were like, we don't think he's going to make it. And I was like, we're bringing in a different doctor. Like we brought in a second, very expensive doctor. And she was like, I can save this baby. She had the level of confidence you want, like such a high level of cockiness. She was like, easy. And like she did it.
Like she backed it up. Most, one of the most expensive things ever paid for, but I would, was like, I don't, I was like, oh, this is what it feels like when you'll pay anything. I never felt that before. But in that moment, I was like, she could say any number and I would find a way. I'm selling kidneys, I'm selling bones, you know, whatever it takes. And it's like such a powerful experience. And that's exactly it is that if you just take the time,
and this is very interesting to think about, people don't choose the charities. There's so many charities that they don't choose the one they care about randomly. And when you start from there and kind of understand someone's motivations, It's so much easier to have a conversation. just like, I think we have so many surface level conversations. It's like, we have the same five, what do you do? Where do you live? What's your favorite thing about your job? Okay, bye. And you have a business card.
Like you're not gonna remember that because they kind of haven't become a They haven't become three dimensional. And I always try to meet people in different locations, because then you form multiple memories. And then I try to talk about as many different topics as I can. because you're gonna remember one of them. Like most people who've read one of my books remember one sentence. They don't remember, nobody remembers the seven habits of highly affected people. They remember the title, but they couldn't tell you all seven,
right? It doesn't stick. And that's what's really important is to kind of have enough conversations that you hit on the thing that matters to that person. So I think that's really, really interesting. I mean, I never talk this much on the podcast. Usually I'm doing interviews. Like you're already doing it to me. I'm talking like twice as much as I normally do. I'm breaking the 30-70 rule, but I think exactly that LinkedIn has become such a powerful resource where you can,
I often will look at someone's career to kind of understand their career What do they care about? What did they used to do? What did they shifted to? Because now what's interesting about LinkedIn is people will list their side jobs very much. So it'll be like, I work here and then I'm CEO of this company. And that's kind of wild to me. I thought, If I were like, haven't worked enough for someone else in a long time that you would not list your side things on
your, because it used to be like, Oh, you don't want your boss to know you have a side hustle, but now I guess it's okay. And that's been a shift and you can say, Oh, this is what they do. This is what they care about. And you can start to understand why, like when they've done a pivot or what they, matters to them. And I think there is so much information out there that we kind of just start listening. And I think whether you're in conversation
with someone you're spending the whole time talking or whether you're just take a quick glance at their LinkedIn profile and you don't click the there's all those little more buttons that you can click on to see like more. And that's where the really good details are hidden. Like to see where did someone start out. I'm always surprised. I've had a couple of people that I, you know, that I look at, we went to the same college, we went to the same high school.
I was talking to someone who went to same high schools. Maybe he graduated 10 years earlier recently, like It just was random, it wasn't intentional, but those little things can provide those touch points. And if it's hard for you to notice them, that's where AI can really help you is with the noticing. But then it's the remember to bring it up part that I think is really important. And. I think you talked about people in transition and you talked about the things
you do wrong about networking. think people in transition, they find networking again or for the first time. And so the big lesson learned hopefully for everyone today is don't network when you lose your job, network when you have your job. And for the folks in transition, the hard thing for a lot of folks that have been to this company for 10 years, first time amount, never built a network, AI is helpful for those people to find the jobs they want,
to prepare, to learn about the companies, to research the people they're interviewing with, get all the questions, get all the insights, what's important about this role, the company's culture. There's so much they could find out about very, very quickly. If they have difficulty spending all the time to research, where do I go, AI does streamline that and make it easier. But I do want to make that point. Don't network just because you're out of a job. It's one of the biggest giveaways that
you've been fired is that you suddenly like update your LinkedIn profile. And the problem with LinkedIn is every time you make a change, it goes, do you want to tell all your friends? And I was cleaning up my profile a couple of weeks ago and it like, it wanted to send out 50 notifications. I like, don't send out any, because it's kind of a red flag in the same way that for some reason we see open to work on a profile.
It's like the Scarlet Letter. When really it's like useful. Every person I've ever hired was open to work. When I hired them, it's not a bad thing, but we... do wait too long. think wherever you are, I always think of networking as farming, which is your plant seeds. And you don't know which one's going to become the big pumpkin and which one's not going to work out. But I sometimes I will meet someone do something nice that I don't remember that
three years later, they'll send me a huge opportunity. And it can take longer than you think for something good to come out because it's kind of like Luck is where preparation meets opportunity, right? And it's like, the preparation is put a lot of seeds out there every time there's an opportunity to do an introduction or help someone out, like those little pieces. And then they do come back when it's the right time. And I think that's sometimes we get caught up in the,
well, I want the immediacy and it's hard when you're being like losing your job is so rough that you're like, you're like, have a certain amount of time and you feel this sense of urgency. And I felt that too. I've been in many situations like that and it kind of can cause you to push too hard. Cause like you're like, well, I need an introduction now because I'm running out of time. So that's why, yeah. The earlier on you take action and the more strategic
and what we're seeing now with job hiring, I think AI has really messed up the hiring market. Cause you post a job, now you get 600 or a thousand applications that have all been written by AI. And people will use, I've done interviews where I'm thinking about hiring someone and they have chat GPT open on the screen. I'm like, you're using chat GPT right now. Like I want to talk to you. And that's a problem. Like whenever I want to hire someone,
the first thing I do is ask all my employees, Hey, do know someone? I'd rather have a less qualified employee that comes in through referral than go through that entire process where there's like a 50 % chance the person is completely unqualified and hoping I don't notice for two weeks. They're just trying to make it to that first paycheck before they get fired. So I think now networking is more important than it's ever been before. And there are opportunities where you can
find people at different companies who can do, there's a lot of companies have that internal bounty program. They're like, before we post a job, if you know someone and they get hired, we give you a commission. Like that's amazing. So now they're financially incentivized to find someone. So you can reach out to people that you only know a little bit on LinkedIn. Like, Hey, if anywhere in companies hiring, let me know. I'll make sure to say you sent me in.
So you get the bounty. Someone will say yes to that. Like you can open up some doors with a little bit of strategy using that and realizing, okay, if the traditional method of sending out resumes doesn't what's the right thing to do? And a lot of it is just, I'm always amazed by people who like, they're starting a new entrepreneurship journey or they're like, I'm looking for a job. Like who have you told? Nobody. Well, that's, you gotta tell people like,
how else is anyone going to send you a referral or send you a client? Or let you know there's a job opening if they don't know you're looking. So I have done a lot of ghost writing in my career. People are like, how do you find clients? I like, I just tell people. There's not a lot of people that walk around saying I'm a ghost writer. So I say that and then I'll meet someone and they're like, oh, we're actually looking for someone.
go, let's talk about if it's right fit, it's right fit. And it's like, if you don't tell anyone and there's this fear that if you tell people before you're successful, it's like a dishonesty. it's like, no, you can tell people. Everyone says they're an actor who's not. Go to everyone I meet. I meet so many people who go, I'm an author. like, what's the name of your book? Like, I haven't started it yet. So people do that too. So you can do it
for whatever career you want. If it's okay for actors and movie stars, and movie stars not yet, it is this, the soft skills that like get you those next opportunities. But yeah, AI can really help you with the research and thinking, okay, what type of place do I want to work? What does this company care about? Because companies post like what are their core values and when they have an employee appreciation day, what type of events they They say a lot about what they care about.
Like some companies really care about working together and some companies really care about having a mission. Some companies really care about just getting done and nobody talks to each other. if that you can find the place you want to work that you fit. So I really like these ideas. This is really, really helpful, I think for lot of people. I think when I when I talk to people in transition, you know, I'm trying to teach them that networking is a good thing,
but you're right. I think people feel rushed. Hey, Jonathan, I'm glad Larry put us together. I'm looking for a new role in marketing. It was just laid off. And so let me tell you all about myself. And so for the next hour or half hour or 45, you're hearing all about that person. They're not asking about you. And I have many of those calls. And so here's what I do at the end. Cause I want to let them talk and
sometimes people aren't a very tough spot. got three kids in college. I got no severance, no outplacement. I don't know what to do. I want to let them talk. Here's my advice to you. I'm going to help you. Here's some things you could do. And I give them advice on LinkedIn, AI and other things they could do. When you kick off that next networking conversation, I want you to open up with Jonathan, great to meet you. I just want to let you know I'm in transition.
I'm glad that we were introduced. I want to learn more about you today as well. And, you know, and then happy to share more about myself. And the reason you want to do that upfront, it's twofold. One, because you're not all about you. And the other is, you know, Jonathan, when he hears that, he's gonna be like, you know what? Thanks a lot. You're in transition. I'm not, but I appreciate you offering that. let me learn more about you and how I can help you.
It will shift back around, but if you're just showing up and throwing up, it's very difficult. And I will always, even with those folks, I'll say, how can I help you, Jonathan? Is there anything else I can do to help you out? No, I'm all good. Now I am waiting for Jonathan to say, Larry, is there anything I can do to help you? It's very rare that they do that. because they're in a tough spot. They're not thinking they can help.
But you know what, just offering to help. You have a network. I'm not gonna take advantage of it, but you know what, if you just put that out there, it's a good thing to say, I never expected, I don't need it. That's not the life that I lead. But not everyone is like me or like you. And you have to assume some people you're meeting with are meeting with you because someone said, meet with Larry. And maybe they're not happy about it.
Make them happy about it. and turn it back to how you can help them. So I always say the five words, how can I help you? Ask it every day in a networking meeting, so in transition, whatever it is, find a way to say it to your staff, to anyone around you, it will be very. Yeah, I think that sometimes people assume that there's a power imbalance and they go, this person's more successful, more famous, taller, whatever than me.
And so I can't, I would have nothing they would want. And so it causes you to, which is a flawed assumption. Like when I lived in England, I met some really, really famous people that I didn't recognize because I don't watch, don't, I don't know every English celebrity. And I'll never forget, I was in this really, really fancy nightclub that like, I only got in because I would go like the five minutes it opened. Like you have to get, when you're a guy,
have to get in really early and I would wait for everyone else to show up two hours later. And I'm talking to this guy next to me. We're having a drink together. I buy him like a $10 tequila, right? Which was a lot of money to me at the time. And he bought me a drink, whatever. I came back and everyone's like, how do you know him? And I go, what do you mean? They go, they go, that's the, he plays for England.
He was like super famous soccer player. And I was like, oh. He's just a guy next to I just chatted to him because he was near me and When you get rid of these assumptions, right? because if I'd walked up and go this guy's famous Why would he talk to me? It would have been really weird when you release those assumptions and I just happen to not recognize him, right? you can have these amazing conversations because When you're really or when you're really beautiful,
it's the same thing like you never know if Someone actually likes you because there's they want something from you And so it's like, there's no honesty there. So if you remove that and you can just talk to them like a person, like it doesn't happen very often to famous people. Like that's where they're famous, the friends with each other is because they don't try and take pictures with each other and whatever. Like that's exactly it. So don't worry so much that there's a power mouse.
Cause sometimes it is exactly that. Like sometimes people just want to hear a story. Like sometimes people just want some to be authentic. Like I've known people who were massively successful or massively famous and they just want someone to be nice to them and like talk to them in a normal way or like they're going through something in their family. Like one of my friends is like going through a really tough medical situation in his family and it's like people think that being rich,
can't solve everything, right? Like some things happen like have no cure and it's like that's all he wants to talk about and it's me too. I get it, right? Like my wife was sick. all I would think about and like going through that and like it becomes your centerpiece and you'd be amazed, I think you'd be amazed how much really sensible sometimes just want someone to listen who doesn't want anything from them. So I love this advice which is what can I do for you?
What are you going through? What are you working on? Just these, if you need to build up to it, right? Ask a few questions and find out like, I can always like. I've interviewed some really amazing people like really high in the military and they generals and I've talked to general and a Admiral this year and they both said that to me and I was like You just like you already did it. You already talked to me like it's like already amazing But it's
you can always really high level people do say that a lot So I think it's a great piece of advice to remind yourself and we do sometimes think well, they wouldn't want anything for me just release that because you never know and Just the offer again, like just offering it shows that you're not selfish. is, we sometimes think this is my one shot and this is like, ~ this is only time I'll ever meet this person so I have to ask my one big
like my one investing question, my one business question and then you're assuming that like you'll never talk to the person again, you're creating a one-time conversation by having that assumption and. Like I started my career, went to this conference, I looked at the list of speakers and I said, I'm just gonna become friends with all of them. And one of my big secrets is I talk to people before they give their talk, not after. It's once you give your talk at a conference
and everyone's recognizing you. But for like the six, whenever you're, if you're on day two, all of day one, no one's recognizing you. Like that's always been amazing to me. I'm like, why not just talk to the person when they're bored or alone or whatever. And you're amazed how much people just are more normal than you think. all people right and so I look I just want to get to know people and I want to be helpful to people but those that are
in need or trying to sell something or in transition they need something from you but it's hard to ask for favors or help if you haven't tried to build a relationship if you haven't tried to get to know the other person if you haven't tried to offer up your relationship base your network or just ask how could I be helpful to you I'm not sure what I could do I'm in transition, but even that offer goes so far. so I think it's, you know, look,
the greatest thing we could do for other people, it's giving our time and our knowledge. And so I can share that, but I can do much more. But if we ask good questions, Jonathan, get to know people, you volunteer that about your daughter. But if we were having a networking conversation and I was in transition, but I heard that. but I happen to know people that were in the Olympics or in martial arts and I could share a connection point,
that'd be a good thing. And so I don't have to ask you how I can help you. go, hey, Jonathan, you mentioned about your daughter. Could I facilitate a connection? And you'd be like, my God, Larry, I never even thought you would be able to provide that. Thank you so much. So it goes a long way, but it's asking good questions, it's listening and not. showing up and throwing up and sharing everything about you that you just feel
I got that 30 minutes or I got that 10 minutes at this conference I gotta share as much as I can about me I don't care about that And like I said at very beginning, the more the other person talks, the more they'll remember you, which is really interesting. So it's like, you don't have to talk that much about you. Sometimes you have the shortest conversation and it can be significant to the other person. If it's at the right moment or the right time
or they need someone to talk to or if you just listen. I have this tendency to end up in the weirdest situations. I always meet really famous people on both sides of the law. I always end up in situations where I'm like, in Japan, I met a guy from the Yakuza who was like missing the finger and took a picture holding it up, showing the missing finger with me pretending. And my friends are like, that's insane. was like, that kind of thing happens to me
so much. Like it's not to me, it's just another story. Cause it happened to me in Thailand, it happened to in London. Like sometimes the person's like in both sides of famousness. And I just run into people and it's... you just listen and be like, how do you get along with everyone? I just kind of listen and I don't make assumptions and I don't really care about a lot of things. just say, what are you doing? Because everyone, you know, talk about their family,
what they're going through. once you realize that, yeah, you can just ask people, what are you going through? What are you working on? What do you need? And if you just listen, the power imbalance, it's not really there. A lot of times they just want to talk to someone who's outside of their normal social circle for a few minutes. And you can have these amazing conversations in different places. I used to, the one thing I loved about living in London was
the subway because everyone on the subway is bored. Like nobody wants to be there. It's too hot. And you can talk to the most amazing people and like have these amazing conversations. It might as well because you're stuck there. Like we have this idea that, Nobody wants to talk. It's like, no, everyone is bored. Everyone doesn't want to be there. It's my favorite opportunity. I love lines. It's the best time to talk to people because they're already bored. and yeah, you never know unless you listen,
unless you ask what someone's thinking about it, what someone's going through. And you might just have a friend of a friend who could like actually answer those questions and kind of whatever they're about. And I always try to talk about the thing with someone who It's the area where they're not, like if someone's really famous, I don't wanna talk about fame. If someone's really wealthy, I don't wanna talk about business, because they don't want to. Like when I'm not at work,
I do not talk about AI. I don't. And that's really kind of one of my other secrets is like, well, let's talk to this person about something where we're on even footing. Like I'll talk to anyone with kids about parenting. Because it's like, It doesn't matter how rich or poor you are, we deal with the same stuff, right? It just may be slightly different modality, but everyone deals with their kids asking for presents that are too big or presents that are too small,
your kids fighting with each other, your kids saying, which one of us do you love the most? And now you're just two dads or you know I mean? And like, that's kind of reminder that once you let go of this power disparity, say, what are you doing with, what are you going through? Yeah, it's really powerful. I think this can help a lot of people who have been trying to figure out the networking thing, because now it's become so important and they're kind of,
they thought, I have to like get all my information out there to be remembered. And I think this will really help a lot of people in that seeing how you can use AI to help you with the research, help you with remembering, accelerate the things, accelerating good networking is really the best use of AI. For people who want to read your book, want to see kind of what you're doing in LinkedIn. What are the best places to find you, Larry? Because this has been a really
great episode. Thank you. Well, you my book is on Amazon. So you just type in the NCG Network and Connecting Giving, the NCG Factor by Larry Kaufman. And so you find me on Amazon. And then also on LinkedIn, you look up Larry Kaufman in Chicago. My name is in all caps. I'm with Jefferson Wells and that way you'll know that's who I am. I put out a lot of content. I've got websites and other information. even the blurb about March dimes you gotta
search my profile but a lot of good insight into who I am in that profile. Well, make sure to put all the links below the video in the show notes for everyone. Thank you so much for being here, Larry, for an amazing episode of the Artificial Intelligence Podcast. Thank you, Jonathan.
